Picspam and Meta: Atlantean Technology
Jul. 24th, 2012 03:15 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
afterandalasiaWith a few meta-ish thoughts, because I can't not get over-thinky about things. Being an archaeologist also causes ramblings below.
So, Atlantis: The Lost Empire. A post-Renaissance Disney film, and not one of the ones that's more widely known. Written by Joss Whedon, it's an action-adventure piece in which a dysfunctional group of explorers, including the bookish hero Milo Thatch, sets out in search of the lost continent of Atlantis. Upon finding it, the leaders of the expedition clash with the King of Atlantis, King Nedakh, and his daughter Kida.
Sadly, we don't get to see a huge amount of Atlantean culture. There are probably fewer than twelve hours (possibly fewer than three or four) spent in Atlantis itself. However, there was a lot of worldbuilding in this film, and it does show - Atlantean is a working conlang, and the backgrounds which we see are lush. One of the biggest shows, though, is in the technology. It's something that I almost want to call stonepunk -- it's hard to tell whether some of the stuff is stone or metal, but my gut instinct says stone. Metal is an ornamentation in Atlantis, not a major use of technology.
I'm not going to work with the prologue, because I want to look at this through Milo's 1914 eyes.
So, this is the first time that we see the Atlanteans:
It's a bit dark, and Milo is basically panicking right now, but this is a really striking entrance. That glow comes from the pendants round their necks, rather than anything else. This scene looks extremely 'primitive' (not a word I like, but one that the media do use), and completely belies what Milo is about to see when he enters Atlantis proper.
Because not long after, Atlantis itself comes into view:
Whoops, not so primitive after all.
What the setting really reminded me of, as an archaeologist, was Europe after the collapse of the Western Roman Empire. There are incredible stories of the people who lived in Rome after its fall -- literacy plummeted, leaving people living in the ruins of their forefathers, having forgotten how to read, forgotten half of the technologies of the Roman Empire.
We see Kida using her pendant to light a lamp at her father's side. Even the King doesn't have much left, compared to the glories that Atlantis used to be. But that doesn't stop Milo from loving it as he is shown around.
When I first saw this form of fishing, it looked familiar, but I couldn't for the life of me figure out why. It turned out that I'd come across it during ethnographic study - it's markedly similar to Chinese net fishing, using fairly permanent structures to bring in hauls of fish. Remarkably elegant, especially considering that it can be made using just wood, rope and net.
With this... I really don't know what to say. It's an amazing sight, and makes an amazing backdrop which we, unfortunately, we don't get to appreciate for very long. That house is either plastered or carved out of a single enormous stone block or stalagmite, and those wood/rope bridges will need regular upkeep in order that they haven't rotted away over the last 8,000-plus years.
At this point, Atlantis is almost completely surrounded by water, so it makes sense that there would be a relatively developed boat technology. The ships with sails look reminiscent of dhows or junks; both they and the ones without look to be plank-built. Given that there doesn't seem to be much metal in Atlantis in general, they must be either discreetly sewn (similar to various Native American canoes) or made using mortise and tenon joints, similar to Ancient Egyptian craft.
Check out the background as well, though -- those huge stone heads, crashed down into water. These must have been constructions on the scale of the Great Pyramid of Giza, of Stonehenge, of the work of the Moundbuilders. That gives a hint of the technological past of Atlantis, as well.
And then we get this scene, which is really wonderful; there's so much going on here, all in the background. For a start, we can see multi-storey buildings, some of which seem to be bamboo lashed with rope, and some of which might be wooden. Some of the fabric is so large that it must have been created on at least a warp-weighted loom, and it seems to have been very well-dyed. We can also see tattoos (though the guy receiving one doesn't seem to be too pleased about it), ceramics (large, painted, and possibly burnished if the cooking pot on the left is ceramic) and small pieces of metal.
In the actual archaeological record, warp-weighted looms appear in eastern Europe in about 7,000 BC; tattoos from at least 3,300 BC (the earliest known examples being on Oetzi the Ice Man in central Europe); ceramics (excluding Palaeolithic ceramic figurines) in China at about 16,000 BC but independantly in Africa and Europe from around 10,000 BC. However, in archaeological literature they tend to get grouped together as becoming more prevalent during the Neolithic, or Late Stone Age. This is a time in which a group of technologies, usually centering around agriculture, ceramics and sedentism, are taken up in a particular area. The earliest Neolithic/LSA cultures are generally at 8-7,000 years ago, expanding from there.
Looking at this scene also lets you see how little metal is used in Atlantis. There are a few bits of jewellery and ornaments, but nothing major. Metalworking in the archaeological record seems to appear independantly in the Middle East/Egypt, the Iberian Peninsula, China and North America at between 7,000 and 5,000 BC. Gold and copper, the first metals worked, do indeed tend to be ornamental, and even bronze tends to have more ornamental than utile properties. It's not until iron comes into use that nails, tools and the like tend to appear.
Note, as well, the Atlantean writing on the sign to the right. If they can't read the journal and old engravings, there must be some second dialect going on, or a different way of encoding things. Cuneiform, for example, was used for at least half a dozen different languages over much less than 8,800 years.
So, aside from my rambling, the film moves on. We finally get to see the first of the things that makes me think of this technology as stonepunk: the flying machines.
I understand why Kida looks so proud of that thing.
Again, it is started with the touch of the pendant -- but this must be taken a lot more power than the lamp. The upper picture also shows that this is a really beautiful piece of technology, looking like a fish.
Unfortunately, though, neither of them really know how to work this thing.
Whoops again.
In any case, they move on; there must be plenty of those things. And at least stone is durable; with some of the things that we see at the end of this movie and into the sequel, it's almost certainly going to be fixable.
As a bonus, we get to see what Atlanteans use to eat dinner:
I don't know what that cutlery is, but then again I don't know what Milo's expression is either. In any case, the more interesting thing is that stone implements of that size and shape would be pretty much impossible to create, which implies that they are metal -- and a greyish metal at that. Signs of a lingering metalworking technique? This isn't in the home of the King, and it seems implied that there isn't a strong hierarchy that would differentiate between 'nobility' and 'commoners', so we have to presume that those implements aren't too uncommon.
Also, I don't know what Milo's expression is.
As the movie continues, we get a few glimpses of the old city of Atlantis, now buried underwater:
Mosaics! Aqueducts! The mosaics look like classic Roman Empire, at least to Europeans, whilst those boats look Egyptian or Mycanean in design. Aqueducts are also a Roman creation. Those robots, however, look like nothing that yet exists, but do look seriously cool. And to be honest, cool is good enough for me a lot of the time.
Then things get really cool. Because we get to see the Heart of Atlantis, and presumably the peak of Atlantean technology.
In the form of a crystal.
And in the form of, well, Kida.
This is the point that I kind of run out of things that I can say about Atlantean technology, because it is so far behind what I know. So I'll just let two people who are far more quotable than me have their say:
It gets better from there, because before too long, we also get to see Atlantean technology in action.
And they do this, which is really cool as well:
Vinnie in particular likes this effect (poor Brass Age car).
Now, this is where in particular I want to look at this from the point of 1914 technology. Gliders are barely fifty years old, and powered aeroplanes have barely been around for a decade. Biplanes are cutting edge technology. And look at what the Atlantean flight machines can do! Even a century after Atlantis is set, we would still be astonished to see craft like these with no visible form of propulsion.
Atlantean technology also takes an interesting turn when we see the difference between what is supposed to happen, and what happens when someone unauthorised gets involved.
Authorised person:
Unathorised person:
I'll let Rourke handle this one. Again, I still have no idea how this technology is now working. I don't have the words for what it is or does or anything. And that is kind of awesome. You get a feel for why Milo was just so excited about the hints that he found about Atlantean technological capabilities.
Now, there's another side to the authorised/unauthorised split. Kida is taken into the crystal with a pure heart, to save her people. Rourke is trying to steal it. This gives an almost moral aspect to the technology, as if it is checking who is deserving. Of course, this does not necessarily mean that the crystal is sentient -- although it seems at times that it is. It could simply be a warning: noble use of technology is good and right, but using technology for greed is dangerous and wrong. Far from the Roman Empire, I now found myself reminded of nuclear technology. A bit of a jump, in one film.
Anyway, the best is still yet to come. When Kida frees the crystal, stone statues rise up and create a forcefield to protect the city from lava. Yes, you read that correctly. And yes, it is about as cool as it sounds.
This is stonepunk taken well beyond modern technology, beyond anything that we can currently create.
From stone, ceramics and fabrics, through flying machines and to forcefields; from the Neolithic to Star Wars futurism. The technology of Atlantis is a thing of wonder, for both the characters and for the viewers, and a thing of beauty as well.
So, Atlantis: The Lost Empire. A post-Renaissance Disney film, and not one of the ones that's more widely known. Written by Joss Whedon, it's an action-adventure piece in which a dysfunctional group of explorers, including the bookish hero Milo Thatch, sets out in search of the lost continent of Atlantis. Upon finding it, the leaders of the expedition clash with the King of Atlantis, King Nedakh, and his daughter Kida.
Sadly, we don't get to see a huge amount of Atlantean culture. There are probably fewer than twelve hours (possibly fewer than three or four) spent in Atlantis itself. However, there was a lot of worldbuilding in this film, and it does show - Atlantean is a working conlang, and the backgrounds which we see are lush. One of the biggest shows, though, is in the technology. It's something that I almost want to call stonepunk -- it's hard to tell whether some of the stuff is stone or metal, but my gut instinct says stone. Metal is an ornamentation in Atlantis, not a major use of technology.
I'm not going to work with the prologue, because I want to look at this through Milo's 1914 eyes.
So, this is the first time that we see the Atlanteans:
It's a bit dark, and Milo is basically panicking right now, but this is a really striking entrance. That glow comes from the pendants round their necks, rather than anything else. This scene looks extremely 'primitive' (not a word I like, but one that the media do use), and completely belies what Milo is about to see when he enters Atlantis proper.
Because not long after, Atlantis itself comes into view:
Whoops, not so primitive after all.
What the setting really reminded me of, as an archaeologist, was Europe after the collapse of the Western Roman Empire. There are incredible stories of the people who lived in Rome after its fall -- literacy plummeted, leaving people living in the ruins of their forefathers, having forgotten how to read, forgotten half of the technologies of the Roman Empire.
We see Kida using her pendant to light a lamp at her father's side. Even the King doesn't have much left, compared to the glories that Atlantis used to be. But that doesn't stop Milo from loving it as he is shown around.
When I first saw this form of fishing, it looked familiar, but I couldn't for the life of me figure out why. It turned out that I'd come across it during ethnographic study - it's markedly similar to Chinese net fishing, using fairly permanent structures to bring in hauls of fish. Remarkably elegant, especially considering that it can be made using just wood, rope and net.
With this... I really don't know what to say. It's an amazing sight, and makes an amazing backdrop which we, unfortunately, we don't get to appreciate for very long. That house is either plastered or carved out of a single enormous stone block or stalagmite, and those wood/rope bridges will need regular upkeep in order that they haven't rotted away over the last 8,000-plus years.
At this point, Atlantis is almost completely surrounded by water, so it makes sense that there would be a relatively developed boat technology. The ships with sails look reminiscent of dhows or junks; both they and the ones without look to be plank-built. Given that there doesn't seem to be much metal in Atlantis in general, they must be either discreetly sewn (similar to various Native American canoes) or made using mortise and tenon joints, similar to Ancient Egyptian craft.
Check out the background as well, though -- those huge stone heads, crashed down into water. These must have been constructions on the scale of the Great Pyramid of Giza, of Stonehenge, of the work of the Moundbuilders. That gives a hint of the technological past of Atlantis, as well.
And then we get this scene, which is really wonderful; there's so much going on here, all in the background. For a start, we can see multi-storey buildings, some of which seem to be bamboo lashed with rope, and some of which might be wooden. Some of the fabric is so large that it must have been created on at least a warp-weighted loom, and it seems to have been very well-dyed. We can also see tattoos (though the guy receiving one doesn't seem to be too pleased about it), ceramics (large, painted, and possibly burnished if the cooking pot on the left is ceramic) and small pieces of metal.
In the actual archaeological record, warp-weighted looms appear in eastern Europe in about 7,000 BC; tattoos from at least 3,300 BC (the earliest known examples being on Oetzi the Ice Man in central Europe); ceramics (excluding Palaeolithic ceramic figurines) in China at about 16,000 BC but independantly in Africa and Europe from around 10,000 BC. However, in archaeological literature they tend to get grouped together as becoming more prevalent during the Neolithic, or Late Stone Age. This is a time in which a group of technologies, usually centering around agriculture, ceramics and sedentism, are taken up in a particular area. The earliest Neolithic/LSA cultures are generally at 8-7,000 years ago, expanding from there.
Looking at this scene also lets you see how little metal is used in Atlantis. There are a few bits of jewellery and ornaments, but nothing major. Metalworking in the archaeological record seems to appear independantly in the Middle East/Egypt, the Iberian Peninsula, China and North America at between 7,000 and 5,000 BC. Gold and copper, the first metals worked, do indeed tend to be ornamental, and even bronze tends to have more ornamental than utile properties. It's not until iron comes into use that nails, tools and the like tend to appear.
Note, as well, the Atlantean writing on the sign to the right. If they can't read the journal and old engravings, there must be some second dialect going on, or a different way of encoding things. Cuneiform, for example, was used for at least half a dozen different languages over much less than 8,800 years.
So, aside from my rambling, the film moves on. We finally get to see the first of the things that makes me think of this technology as stonepunk: the flying machines.
I understand why Kida looks so proud of that thing.
Again, it is started with the touch of the pendant -- but this must be taken a lot more power than the lamp. The upper picture also shows that this is a really beautiful piece of technology, looking like a fish.
Unfortunately, though, neither of them really know how to work this thing.
Whoops again.
In any case, they move on; there must be plenty of those things. And at least stone is durable; with some of the things that we see at the end of this movie and into the sequel, it's almost certainly going to be fixable.
As a bonus, we get to see what Atlanteans use to eat dinner:
I don't know what that cutlery is, but then again I don't know what Milo's expression is either. In any case, the more interesting thing is that stone implements of that size and shape would be pretty much impossible to create, which implies that they are metal -- and a greyish metal at that. Signs of a lingering metalworking technique? This isn't in the home of the King, and it seems implied that there isn't a strong hierarchy that would differentiate between 'nobility' and 'commoners', so we have to presume that those implements aren't too uncommon.
Also, I don't know what Milo's expression is.
As the movie continues, we get a few glimpses of the old city of Atlantis, now buried underwater:
Mosaics! Aqueducts! The mosaics look like classic Roman Empire, at least to Europeans, whilst those boats look Egyptian or Mycanean in design. Aqueducts are also a Roman creation. Those robots, however, look like nothing that yet exists, but do look seriously cool. And to be honest, cool is good enough for me a lot of the time.
Then things get really cool. Because we get to see the Heart of Atlantis, and presumably the peak of Atlantean technology.
In the form of a crystal.
And in the form of, well, Kida.
This is the point that I kind of run out of things that I can say about Atlantean technology, because it is so far behind what I know. So I'll just let two people who are far more quotable than me have their say:
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." -Arthur C. Clarke
"Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced." -Gregory BenfordI don't know what Atlantean technology is, but it's damn cool. And in this film, it definitely comes off as technology, rather than magic as is seen in other Disney films.
It gets better from there, because before too long, we also get to see Atlantean technology in action.
And they do this, which is really cool as well:
Vinnie in particular likes this effect (poor Brass Age car).
Now, this is where in particular I want to look at this from the point of 1914 technology. Gliders are barely fifty years old, and powered aeroplanes have barely been around for a decade. Biplanes are cutting edge technology. And look at what the Atlantean flight machines can do! Even a century after Atlantis is set, we would still be astonished to see craft like these with no visible form of propulsion.
Atlantean technology also takes an interesting turn when we see the difference between what is supposed to happen, and what happens when someone unauthorised gets involved.
Authorised person:
Unathorised person:
I'll let Rourke handle this one. Again, I still have no idea how this technology is now working. I don't have the words for what it is or does or anything. And that is kind of awesome. You get a feel for why Milo was just so excited about the hints that he found about Atlantean technological capabilities.
Now, there's another side to the authorised/unauthorised split. Kida is taken into the crystal with a pure heart, to save her people. Rourke is trying to steal it. This gives an almost moral aspect to the technology, as if it is checking who is deserving. Of course, this does not necessarily mean that the crystal is sentient -- although it seems at times that it is. It could simply be a warning: noble use of technology is good and right, but using technology for greed is dangerous and wrong. Far from the Roman Empire, I now found myself reminded of nuclear technology. A bit of a jump, in one film.
Anyway, the best is still yet to come. When Kida frees the crystal, stone statues rise up and create a forcefield to protect the city from lava. Yes, you read that correctly. And yes, it is about as cool as it sounds.
This is stonepunk taken well beyond modern technology, beyond anything that we can currently create.
From stone, ceramics and fabrics, through flying machines and to forcefields; from the Neolithic to Star Wars futurism. The technology of Atlantis is a thing of wonder, for both the characters and for the viewers, and a thing of beauty as well.
